Timelines? *spoilers?*

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Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by Babywhatsyoursin on Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:37 am

Dono, maybe this is a bit of a moot topic.

Instead of bugging MMM with my whining, I was wondering if anyone else had ideas as to general timelines for Q?

I'm mostly interested in the time in history where he could have been married. The history of Rome itself is so long/involved, and you all have to know by now just how lazy I can be. :p

So let's start with:

General time of Q's birth
Gladiator days
Roman Soldier Days
Marriage
Quest for Vengeance/ chasing his father's shadow...
Joining the Ancients

It occurs to me that we know schway more about the earlier couple of centuries than we know about his time as a servant to the Ancients. Like, what did he do for them to make them call him loyal? Not just by watching his interactions with humans for sure. Not just by the basis that they have his cooperation due to the fact that they know what he wants.

He must have taken part in their slow quest for world domination.

Which leads me to think... before the treaty was broken, did the Ancients ever plan on really offing the Master? I don't think so... despite multiple warnings from Q or other sources. So did Q put revenge on the backburner? Really... he served them, but what was in it for him?
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by GoeticDisciple on Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:35 am

Quinlan was born in 41 AD, which was the last year of Caligula's reign.

I know they say in the books he grew quickly so I took that as he was strong/large for his age. In my HC, he's about 10 when when the Master destroys his mother but he's strong enough to carry a woman (from the comics), so he's probably got more like a 16-18 year old's physique.

I give him 4 years hiding in the countryside, robbing and stealing, before they catch him and he goes the gladiator pens.

Maybe 5 years as a gladiator... enough to learn skills, master them, make the circuit and eventually end up in the Roman ampitheatre where his abilities caught the Senator's attention and he was conscripted into the Roman Legion.

Probably 10 years as a soldier/junior officer/senior officer before ending up as a General in the army who then served under "many emperors" as the book says. So let's say Quinlan began to properly serve the emperors starting with Vespasian in approx 70 AD.

This is where it gets tricky! How many emperors did he serve? Let's say he served 10 emperors, finishing out with Commodus in 180 AD... and that's when he retired as a Legate.

I think the marriage lasted an unfortunately short time, like 3-5 years... but the comics influence the impression here as the daughter is still a little child when she is turned. So the marriage could certainly have been longer than that.

If I remember correctly, Quinlan teamed up with the Ancients after Christianity took firm hold in Europe, which was around 475AD... so doing math backwards, that gives him about 290 years of chasing dad around.
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by GoeticDisciple on Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:45 am

And indeed, he would have had to prove his fealty to the Ancients to get them to allow him to join them. I would imagine he promised his loyalty and then promptly had to participate in some kind of activity which proved he was no longer considering himself part of the world of men.

Serving the Ancients gave Q purpose. For a while, I'm sure it allowed him to forget his quest for revenge. And given how clever the Ancients were - plus the length of time they were willing to invest to in execution their world domination plan - I'm sure they were masters at giving Q just enough rope to continue his quest on the side. In the end, if the Master had been killed, all his power would have transferred to the other 6 Ancients. I'm sure they wouldn't have minded that. Yeah, then their master bodyguard would be also dead... but they wouldn't need him then, would they? They'd have a whole world of human slaves to use.
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by VampireEater on Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:25 pm

Except for a few munched dates in the book. Quinlan's life and the time in history it toke place. Is a blur. It's kind of sad, because it doesn't give us a lot to work with, but at the same time. We do have the opportunity to excises our imaginations.

As for the Ancients. I believe they know that they had Q wrapped around their long middle finger. At the time Q joined them. He was depressed, lonely, and dispirited. The Ancients toke advantage of Q. By giving him the add he needed to hunt the Master, and welcomed him in to their clans with opened arms.  As the centuries went on and his legend full form history and the people and culture he once serviced died out. He didn't have anywhere to go or anyone else to work for.

But I'm sure that the Ancients know that though they welcomed Q as a vampire. He still had human needs. I wouldn't be surprised if with all their human resources and his human needs. They sent Q to a few brothels in the hundreds of years he worked for the Ancients. To let out that sexually frustration he penned up over the centuries, and to sooth his human loneliness.

I also believe that though Quinlan was half vampire. Was strong and a loyal mercenarie. He was still too human for them. The Ancients probably looked down on him. In a way. They assumed that he would nave have what it would take to plan out a Coup d"etat and betray them and the would be partially right.  

and I done ranting. :}

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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by GoeticDisciple on Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:04 pm

I absolutely believe they treated Q as a servant, however willing he may have been to serve. The Ancients didn't want peers.

I think its a shame that the books never once address what it must have been like for Q to suddenly be free of the Ancients after they were destroyed. Imagine if you spent 75% of your life in the service of one boss and suddenly, BLAM - that boss is gone and your world is in chaos... what would that be like? There's so much there to explore. All too much in the books he's portrayed as a single-minded automaton, which I find unrealistic, given his half-human side.

Then again, it takes ***a lot*** of effort to write a well-rounded character... and you all know how I feel about the amount of effort dedicated to the books.

I also think there's miles of good stuff to be explored around the people who bought their way into the Ancient's immortal line... HELLOOOOOO where did all those folks end up? Not a whiff of a single one in the books...
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by VampireEater on Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:29 pm

If I had to guess about what was running thought his head. When the Ancients trued to ash. Loneliness. Depression. A loss of something that was familiar. Confusion. Probably the exact same feelings he experience when he lost his family and as time when to. His people and culture.
Maybe that's why it toke him two years to get the old world Ancient's ashes and get back to NY. I bet Quinlan stayed low and out of sight for a while when night zero happened. The Master obviously know that his son was still out there and probably sit Stoneheats hit tames out looking for him. I'm sure Q stayed in one of those brothels the Ancients use to send him and helped settle and lead all the misplaced humans that had been in serves to the Ancients.

Amelia Airheart was probably trued. All of those riches and fames people in history. You hear about disappearance mysteriously. Any one of high or rear skill. Their the ones trued into vamps. By the Ancients.

The Ancients are most likely responsible for all the disappearances Bermuda triangle!

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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by Majinkura on Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:07 pm

GoeticDisciple wrote:All too much in the books he's portrayed as a single-minded automaton, which I find unrealistic, given his half-human side.

Then again, it takes ***a lot*** of effort to write a well-rounded character... and you all know how I feel about the amount of effort dedicated to the books.

Wink this is why its up to us to give him more of a personality right??
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by VampireEater on Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:23 pm

All the way. Lets do for Q what the writers could in the books!

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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by MrQuinlansBloodDoll on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:40 am

So, wait..... How long did Q live after the Ancients went poof?
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by VampireEater on Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:41 am

Sad to say. He lived only for two more years. :{

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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by MrQuinlansBloodDoll on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:37 pm

Aww, only 2? X.x
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by GoeticDisciple on Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:37 am

So by what VE said a couple posts up, does that mean Jimmy Hoffa became a vamp? hahaha I just couldn't resist!
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by GoeticDisciple on Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:44 am

VampireEater wrote: Maybe that's why it toke him two years to get the old world Ancient's ashes and get back to NY. I bet Quinlan stayed low and out of sight for a while when night zero happened.

And this is a good point. He had three sets of ashes to get. One in Bulgaria (or thereabouts), one in China and one somewhere else I don't think they mention. Two years for an experienced mercenary to get three tureens of ash seems long, even if he had to take a boat (which you know he hated every moment of that). So what was he doing during all that time away? Guess I'll just have to write about the Europe quest and why it took him so long to come back into the fight..."
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by Majinkura on Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:54 am

wait so that's where the old world ancients resided??
so i wonder what killed the other two off.....since we know one died in chernobyl.
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by GoeticDisciple on Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:59 am

From the books it's not 100% clear where all the origin sites are.
• Sofia, Bulgaria was the first, a secret, underground explosion timed on the same day as the Chernobyl disaster
• The Guangdong nuclear plant (probably Daya Bay) explosion in China was the second.
• Setrakian tells Fet "there will be four more" but those four areas are never explained.

The books imply all the Ancients started out in the Old World and the Master, originating in North America, had to make his way over the landbridge in Russia to join them for a while.

I don't see any evidence that other Ancients originated in the West of United States or anywhere in Canada or South America - but it you want really comprehensive nuclear winter, you probably need at least one plant to meltdown on the West Coast and one down in Brazil. It seems Origination Sites are another area that Chuck and GDT didn't really flesh out.
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by Babywhatsyoursin on Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:01 am

VampireEater wrote:...Loneliness. Depression. A loss of something that was familiar. Confusion. Probably the exact same feelings he experience when he lost his family and as time when to. His people and culture.
Maybe that's why it toke him two years to get the old world Ancient's ashes and get back to NY. I bet Quinlan stayed low and out of sight for a while when night zero happened.

Hmm. Well, here's my two cents. :p

After nearly two millenia, Q is tired. He's lived through some rather tumultuous times in history. I'd be more likely to believe that the death of the Ancients is more like lifting a weight off his shoulders. For one reason or another, the ol' boys did not find the Master a threat, or did not want their seventh brother dead. The loss of the Ancients puts Q at a huuuge disadvantage, but leaves him to carry on as he sees fit. And with the world falling to shambles, what other choice does he have but to work toward finally getting that revenge? He has nothing else left to live for. I wonder if living so long in the presence of vamps kindof put his humanity on the backburner- something that might have been a blessing for all the pain he was experiencing.

I don't think the loss of the Ancients would be similar to losing his family. At least, not quite. Q would know why he was valued, and that his continued existence banked entirely on how useful he was. A part of him or not, they wouldn't give much of a thought if he met his end early.

But don't we all know that sometimes you can care without being cared for. Additionally, to add to your point, Q did have some wicked yearning/ daddy feels which cost him quite a bit throughout his history...

Hey. During those two years... You think Q visited the resting place of his wife and daughter, as a final goodbye? Sad Sad Sad Argh, why do I do this to myself??  Laughing  

Also, maybe it took Q two years to collect all the ashes because he was breaking the fourth wall and sorting through some shoddy writing. :p (Lol JK GDT/Chuckster ily).

Now, I have a question that I think I know the answer to... I obviously didn't pay much attention when I read the books, haha:

Spoiler:
If Q learns what he has to do with the ashes by trudging through the Lumen, then how the heck did he know to collect them in the first place? Did the Ancients instruct him to do that when they finally acknowledged inevitability?

So going by that, he'd at least have some instruction as to what his next steps would be.

VampireEater wrote:The Ancients are most likely responsible for all the disappearances Bermuda triangle!

Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked *plays Twilight Zone track*

GoeticDisciple wrote:I don't see any evidence that other Ancients originated in the West of United States or anywhere in Canada or South America - but it you want really comprehensive nuclear winter, you probably need at least one plant to meltdown on the West Coast and one down in Brazil. It seems Origination Sites are another area that Chuck and GDT didn't really flesh out.

From what I've gathered, the pieces of the Archangel were scattered throughout the globe. I assumed that meant all over... the Master was the last to rise. Possible that the other Ancients were having a nice rave or something in the years (/centuries?) before he became self-aware.
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by GoeticDisciple on Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:41 pm

From what I've gathered, the pieces of the Archangel were scattered throughout the globe. I assumed that meant all over... the Master was the last to rise.

I sat on Google maps the other day and plotted this out as I was doing research for the last section of Keys. Because: OBSESSION

I assumed the throat was thrown furthest because it was most repellent. Perhaps the only one to be thrown over a body of water (Atlantic Ocean). Putting a large body of water between it and the other pieces would throw a wrench in the possibility of recombination... of course, the Archangels didn't anticipate the pieces were going to start inhabiting bodies which could traverse distances but hey, even when we're omnipotent and can see time in a flat circle, everybody makes mistakes, right? Shocked

So in my canon, only the throat crossed a major body of water. All the others are reachable by land-travel.

Now where the two remaining Old World Ancients chose to hide out and the subsequent location of their ashes - that's a totally different story. I've got an idea where the first dead Ancient's ashes ended up (not gonna say lest I spoil you to my own plot) but the other 2 I haven't figured it out. They would have to be secret, interesting places... and remote, to justify Q's two year disappearance.
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by guest on Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:09 am

I think Q used the Ancients as well. They may have thought he was a servant, but let's remember that he turned them down on the battlefield, and they did nothing. So he basically called their bluff if they threatened him. He went to them and offered his services,influence, and money and they "welcomed him as one of their own". Then GDT/Hogan later described him as their loyal ally. And the Ancients said he was their best hunter..not servant. So the more I think about it, the more I don't think they had anything on him. Or thought poorly of him once he said he wanted to join forces. He wasn't a threat after that, before he was an unknown risk. Quinlan needed them for numbers really. They had reach across the globe, huge wealth (added to his), and the hunters. So by joining with them, he wouldn't be facing the Master one on one. He'd stand a better chance with skilled hunters, even Thaticus.  Laughing
When the Ancients died he was probably a little sad who is to say. I figure the book Ancients puttered around more and dealt with humans more often then the Sleeping Beauties on the show. The book Ancients had robes, which I am sure they didn't wear to make themselves feel comfortable. That would be worn to deal with humans.  I'd like to believe that at least SOME of the hunters were of Eichhorst quality and Q had someone to talk to. But I also figure the Ancients had a few of their own Reggie Fitzwilliam's running around, especially if they had major reach in the governments and banking communities. Someone would have to interact with new parties on the Ancients behalf. So he probably wasn't that lonely.
I figure one of the Ancient's site has to be somewhere in Africa as they tracked Q to the battlefield. The Third Legion Augusta was  based in Africa during Q's life in the Legion. (that's also where they got Mrs. Q)
Well all Quinlan needed was the ASHES, not the burial place of the original Angel Bit, that would be LONG gone and super deep. So Quinlan would have run off to the home base of the Old World Ancients to sweep them up. He knew where that was because he went there to join forces with them. I think it's somewhere in Africa though...imo.
It would have taken two years because he had to get there by boat. Today it takes about 16-20 days for a cargo ship to go from NY to say Namibia. Now you have to figure he has to find a cargo ship that has the fuel to cross..and the ability to do so without attracting notice of the Master. Also, would they still have the fancy techno stuff working or would they have to sail the cargo ship Old School? That would add time.
Then he has to get to the Hideout  via vehicle and without notice. Then do it all over again. I figure he did go to Rome to check out his old homestead, which would have added to his time. It's possible that he even fought against strigoi when he was there as well. So that may have kept him there for 2 years.
Of course I am just basing it on the 3 OW Ancients staying in the same spot after the others moved to the NW..but who knows if they lived in the same location together. I would think yes, just for safety and convenience of doing business together.

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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by Babywhatsyoursin on Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:49 am

Yup, thinking about it, I agree- assuming they haven't moved around much, I think Q would have an idea as to OWA location. After all, he met up with them prior to the split between NW/OW.

As far as Q using them as well- yes. But I'm sure the Ancients were all too aware of that, so in a way, it was more like manipulation. Which Q accepted- after all he still needed them. Not so sure that they truly feared him, or if they were too concerned. I get the distinct impression from the book that they're fed fat from the idea of their power. If they can ignore Doily's stirrings- a creature that they're connected to, no matter how muted that bond may become- then maybe they also see Q's prowess as something to grant the incomparable honor of brohood to. Like, 'yeah, you isth tough Quintus, but checkith out our club- pretty rad, right? Well, you're nothing without us- look at what your attempt at humanity has given you. You could be something with us. You can experience the honor of our kinship. Humans are like our puppets anyway, lol.'

Rambly nonsencsical rant over for the moment.
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Re: Timelines? *spoilers?*

Post by Majinkura on Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:20 am

LMAOOO DOILY!!!!
XD
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