Everybody hates EPH!

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Everybody hates EPH!

Post by Majinkura on Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:52 pm

Hi, i'm Ephraim Goodweather,and welcome to Jackass!!

This Reddit post hits the nail on the head with all the reasons why I don't like this character,I understand flawed characters are the "in" thing,but not when they're this Eph'd up....
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Re: Everybody hates EPH!

Post by GoeticDisciple on Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:26 pm

It really does nail it.

Many highly successful, brilliant people are utter psychos. I find Eph a scary echo of some of the superstar researchers I worked with when I was a staff artist at a research/burn hospital. Two guys in particular were so selfish, so sexist, and yet so unbelievably brilliant and charming, at first look. It was after you spent an entire day with one of them, working in some little room, writing a research grant, that you saw the true creature come out. My skin used to crawl when I was around them. They did have better problem solving skills than Eph, but each one had addiction issues and both were wholly self-involved.

I work in tech now and I encounter the same kinds of men, just not as exaggerated, because at least they're not walking around like puffed up prairie chickens bragging about all the lives they're saving.
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Re: Everybody hates EPH!

Post by Babywhatsyoursin on Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:51 pm

I agree with pretty much every point in the article.

Though Kelly's new bf... forget is name (so awful, I know). I think he's viewed as a douche partly because of how Eph sees him. Also, he's pretty much the only character to give Eph the exact treatment he deserves. No pussyfooting around.
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Re: Everybody hates EPH!

Post by Majinkura on Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:40 pm

matt - I actually didn't think he was such a bad guy..he seemed nicer,had...a strong head on his shoulders...get it Razz

he would have taken better care of zach if the roles were switched.
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Re: Everybody hates EPH!

Post by VampireEater on Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:07 pm

I don't know about you guys, but I like Eph. A lot more than some of the other characters. That's for sure.

He brings a realism to the show and it's circumstances. How many people are going to believe. That vampires are running wild. In the sewers of NY. That they drink blood with a long tongue and are made by tiny little warms? Not a lot, but once he see it first hand. He buckles down and starts taking names.
As well as he brings a since of heart, strength and complexity. Fighting within himself. He's the classic hero type. The ones that has to make a chose between. Doing their duty to save lives and being there for the ones that mean the most to them.

I think why people judge him to harshly. Is because to many people expect him to be a white Blade. Not a real guy.

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Re: Everybody hates EPH!

Post by Babywhatsyoursin on Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:05 am

I meant to respond to this waaay back, lol.

I don't think it's so much a white blade issue. And I can accept that Eph has his darker sides. But its just that he's honestly the type of person that I personally would stay away from. He has that toxic selfishness that clinically depressed people sometimes have.

The article nails it because it just highlights The Best Of in the sense that he's just one of those half-nice people who is basically turns around and is a jerk to everyone. He puts himself first more often than not, and so he looses his wife, his girl, and (with the help of the Master, who is well versed in this stuff) his son. All the while he mopes a bit over his mistakes- he seems like one of those people who just can't see where the selfishness is wrong.

Throw some 'chosen one' type themes in there, and you have one unlikable main character. :p

Spoiler:
But yes- he does make the ultimate sacrifice. More so with his sons death than his own. And he does feel guilty while considering turning his back on the others and handing the Master the Lumen. He's not all trash- I just personally find him a bit annoying at times. Smile
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Re: Everybody hates EPH!

Post by Luccicute on Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:42 am

I know this is an old topic but I would like to add something about Eph or rather the writing around him that bothers me.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm trying to remember all the way back in season 1) but wasn't it Eph who cheated on his wife with Nora? Nora who LOVES him but he never commits to her. Wasn't he the one who had the drinking problem that created tension/anger with his family? Hadn't he been neglecting his loved ones by burying himself in his work?

((((Granted, the last reason is very shaky. Did he neglect on purpose or because his job works that way? The show has us believe the latter, but speaking from personal experience with a father who has a similar job/hours as Eph my father always managed to make time for us. But IDK. EITHER WAY--))))

My issue mostly is how we almost always get Eph's side justified.

How the writing tries to get us to sympathize and relate to him bugs me the most. Now, relating to a flawed person who messes up a lot is obviously not a bad thing (hey! I tend to love characters like that), but the show holds him on such a pedestal above others. He almost can NEVER be wrong, but he CAN be hurt.

For example, when Fet bonded with Eph about his fears of Dutch cheating him, Eph jovially accuses him of being a quitter. Fet replies 'sometimes people quit on you.' Eph agrees of course silently. I cannot help but think this refers to Eph's wife, and how he felt SHE quit on him back in season 1 when fighting for custody over their son. Eph was extremely distraught when Zack chose his mom over him, barely at all acknowledging how this YOUNG CHILD felt that his family was more stable without him. (nor about telling his wife the truth about Nora which could have started them on a new path of honestly, albeit a difficult one)

That.....kinda bugs me.

Especially since, in his wife's situation, it seems like she has a lot of reasons to not want to be with Eph. Unfortunately, we so rarely got to see HER in the right between them. Yes she got Zack in the end, and Eph was upset, but somehow she is still seen as wrong. In season 1 it is clearly shown the wife is wrong for not listening to Eph about getting out of NYC. Not to mention she was wrong about choosing her boyfriend (over him) who turned out to be an asshole, just as Eph predicted (and arguably WANTED. imagine how much more interesting it would have been if the boyfriend wasn't a jerk).

SHE is wrong. SHE should have listened to him and Eph is the sympathetic knight trying to save her even though she doesn't want to be with him. At least that is what the writing implies to me. Doesn't help that even during that time in season 1 Eph was STILL cheating on her with Nora despite his constant 'I still want us to be a family again' schtick. So as a viewer I just couldn't buy it.

Then again, this formula seems to be repeating itself around Dutch/Fet as it is ONLY Fet's side that gets justified about his fears of her cheating on him. Barely touching on how Dutch is Nikki's FRIEND (besides ex) so naturally she cares, nor does it match up with how Fet's seen Dutch worried about her in previous episodes. Fet overreacted, but it isn't portrayed that way. LOL but I'm getting off topic. This is about Eph. Haha, don't even get me started on him cheating on Nora TOO. Feels like Scott Pilgrim all over again, why am I suppose to care about a jerk like this?

TLDR; I think the writers like Eph a little too much, that even when he does genuinely fuck up its still portrayed in a sympathetic light as opposed to the people he's hurt. Doesn't help that he was a recovering alcoholic and is getting back into that mess (Also being justified cause now he's more 'fun.'). Don't get me wrong, I'd drink too if I had to go through all that shit...just...its extra worrisome given his past w/ the stuff imo. Its no biggie if there are fans who like him....I just...find the way the writers handle it very biased.
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Re: Everybody hates EPH!

Post by GoeticDisciple on Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:32 pm

Isn't it fascinating in how the writers have attempted to create an interesting yet flawed character and yet they still have managed to create someone one-dimensional?

I agree with you the writers are working too hard to make Eph's actions justified in order to ensure the viewership sticks with him as the hero. You can win people over without justifying everything they do, maybe even moreso if you portray the character truly agonizing over their mistakes.

Ahhhhh but that would mean we had the A team writing for the show, and I think they took holiday. As did the B team.

That's why shows like True Detective Season 1 (I refuse to acknowledge TD S2 exists) mop up the world with their incredible writing.
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